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Can There be Abusive Women in Abusive Relationships?

  
  
  
  

abusive womenAre there abusive women?  Yes.  Can women be the cause of abusive relationships?  Yes.

There are a number of posts on this Counseling Men blog about abusive men.  And justifiably so, because men can often be the source of abuse in abusive relationships, but so can women.

At Guy Stuff Counseling we work with women who’s male partners are abusive.  But some of the men who come to us are also in abusive relationships with abusive women.  One of the ironies of abusive relationships is that many women are aware of their male partner’s abuse, however, a lot of men are not aware that their wife or girlfriend is abusive.

Why are men so often blind to abusive women?  Because women are more often subtlety and passively abusive, as opposed to men who are more direct and outwardly abusive.  Verbal abuse, emotional abuse, and psychological abuse are the most common types of abuse inflicted by abusive women.  Men on the other hand can be physically and sexually abusive in addition to these others. 

Because of the different styles of abuse used by women compared to men, in abusive relationships it’s very common for men to believe that they’re the problem and the abuser, not their partner.

Phil came to Guy Stuff Counseling for anger management classes after months and months of demanding by his wife that he do something to change.  There was no doubt that Phil had an anger problem – he threw things, punched holes in the wall, he even punched a metal door, and Phil finally recognized he needed anger help when he snapped and threw his son across his bed.

The irony in Phil’s situation is that not only does he have an anger problem, but he also has an abusive wife.  Which causes which -- his anger or her verbal abuse?  Which is the source of the problem -- his explosive outbursts or her blaming him for everything?  These difficult and unanswered questions have kept Phil for a longtime stuck and not knowing what to do.

Here’s how Phil describes his relationship:

  • “We have these misunderstandings and I get this whole schpeel of crap from her of how it’s my fault.”
  • “I have to deal with her constant dumping on me.”
  • She sees things very one sided, me at fault, and is incapable of seeing that I could have a point.
  • "She's very good at fixing everyone else, but not herself.”
  • "I’m supposed to put up with her crap while I work on my crap.  Why am I supposed to be sympathetic and empathetic to her issues when she isn't to mine?"
  • "She told me ‘I’ve been miserable since I met you’.”

Can you see yourself or your partner in any of the above?  Could it be possible that you’re in a relationship with an abusive woman?  If you think it might be possible, then get some professional counseling help to find out if you’re right and what to do about it.  We help abusive relationships change and become healthy, happy relationships every day -- even Phil's.  You deserve to have one too.

Comments

While his wife might be abusive, I don't necessarily see her comment regarding being miserable since she met him as evidence of that, and that is the only specific example provided. She might have said that out of sheer frustration and upset, as being abused takes a huge toll on one's self-esteem and sense of well-being. It's easy to get overwhelmed with emotion when you're on the receiving end of physical and/or emotional/verbal abuse. 
 
Speaking as the wife of a physically, verbally, and emotionally abusive husband, I too have been accused by him of expecting him to do all the changing, however, even a therapist has been unable to convince him otherwise. The therapist explained to me that abusers have a very difficult time taking responsibility for their behavior and tend to be very defensive when anyone suggests that they have done anything wrong- which they clearly have.  
 
He also may be lying about what his wife is doing or not doing- my husband does, and has been caught in those lies repeatedly. When he is, he never has anything further to say- until the next time he becomes angry and he makes more false accusations or repeats previous ones.  
 
The comment about 'why should I have to change and show empathy?' is so immature- one changes bad behavior because it's the right thing to do- a good relationship is not a pissing contest.
Posted @ Sunday, January 29, 2012 11:21 AM by Stacey
Stacey, Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. I can assure you that this guy is in an abusive relationship and is trying to change more than his wife. He does struggle with his anger, which can be abusive too.  
 
You make some good points and are correct about both partners needing to take responsibility for changing their behavior. i'm sorry to hear that your husband has not. The point of this article was to recognize that there are men who are abused too.
Posted @ Wednesday, February 08, 2012 6:14 PM by Kurt Smith, MFT, AFC
This is an important topic. Your article raises an interesting dilemna- "it's easy for men to believe that they're the problem and abuser, not their partner" So how do you differentiate this? Could you elaborate with more criteria to help recognize this dynamic?  
 
Would I be correct that an abusive spouse offers a significant challenge in perceiiving their abusive behavior and the need for them to participate in counseling with you?  
 
Does this ever have any correlation with women who claim a moral high ground, either religious based, feminine politics, etc? It occurs to me that abusive partners might sometimes use a cloak of rightousnesss in one form or another to avoid introspection or as an authority for asserting their views as unchallengable. Some of the rigidity of the comments from wives about porn made me think of this. If marriage is a commitment to each other, don't our attitudes have to be open to learning how to cope with the weaknesses and needs we all have as human beings and avoid taking unilateral positions that allow no way to grow beyond a problem?
Posted @ Thursday, March 29, 2012 4:10 AM by Ralph
It is a common notion that when discussing abusive relationships, it is the men who are always blamed. This is because it is the subject connotes only physical abuse. However, there are also women that are abusive in relationships usually through verbal abuse. Situations such as this should be addressed immediately to avoid damaging the relationship.
Posted @ Friday, March 30, 2012 2:00 AM by family counseling Metro Atlanta
i feel like the men are the ones to blame for being abusive
Posted @ Monday, April 02, 2012 9:10 AM by Lil Money
Ralph, Good questions. Yes, it is a significant challenge getting an abusive partner to recognize their behavior. Often because their partner gives them behavior that is wrong that they can distract on. Yes, attitudes have to be open by both partners to have a healthy relationship. For many of us, how to do that is a learning process that takes time. -Kurt
Posted @ Tuesday, April 03, 2012 1:56 PM by Kurt Smith, MFT, AFC
I am a women and I used to lash out at my husband in the same manner you gave examples of. I had to get myself years of therapy, but I can honestly say that I am proud the women I have become. I knew I was dealing with verbal abuse when I was growing up, but my only exposure to finding "the right way a family should act", was watching "Little House on the Prairie". I needed to be taught the little details of how a family is supposed to function on a daily basis. I was like trying to return to grade school and deal with the bad grades, bullies, and boys with parents that were emotionally stable. It took along time, but I was told that I accomplished my goal to becoming an informed women. I am now on this site trying to help a man that I recognize is being abused and it is tough to watch, but I am keeping my cool.
Posted @ Tuesday, May 08, 2012 12:44 PM by Humbled
Humbled, Thank you so much for sharing your story. It is a lot of work to change, but soooo worth it. And it's always possible. You should be proud of who you've become. -Kurt
Posted @ Tuesday, May 08, 2012 1:52 PM by Kurt Smith, MFT, AFC
Every single one of those quotes have come word for word out of the mouth of my physically, emotionally and verbally abusive drug addicted, borderline personality disordered ex.  
He is now in therapy and has himself, his family, his coworkers, his friends and his therapist fully convinced that I was abusive towards him which in turn provoked his abuse towards me. 
On the other hand, Ive never raised my voice or a hand to him and its horrible to have everything twisted on you in the above manner. Its a defense mechanism and its called projection. My therapist has been working with me for a year to try and get me out of my hole of depression and damaged self-esteem to stop blaming myself for his rages, cheating, stealing, lying, etc that he 100% denies to this day, and is actually informed about the dynamics of an abusive relationship. I'm not saying that I know for certain that the sbove man is really being abused by his woman, but he might actually be like my ex: a charismatic exceptionally skilled liar that basks in the glory of having achieved a truly undeserved victim status.
Posted @ Friday, May 25, 2012 11:24 AM by mary
 
You know, the more I think about this, the angrier I get. You are DEFENDING a man who, by his own admission, has 'snapped' and THREW HIS CHILD, and you and this man are maintaining that there is a woman on this earth evil and abusive enough to FORCE this behavior out of him? Let me tell you, there are more women than you can count who have been beaten, strangled, raped, intimidated, stalked, harassed, etc, who have NOT turned around and abused their children because of it. Blaming this mans atrocious behavior on his wife's abusive behavior is unacceptable. Period. And I shouldn't have to tell a councilor this. An abusive relationship is a DYNAMIC, not an action or a series of actions. You state his wife is the abuser, and then you state his anger is abusive. Which one is it? They cant both be the abuser in the relationship. 
Let me break this down for you: 
“We have these misunderstandings and I get this whole schpeel of crap from her of how it’s my fault.” Our 'misunderstandings' were my not accepting his selfishness and tyranny and his reconstructing of events and reality and my not 'understanding' the intentions behind his abusive behaviours. Then I would go on this 'whole schpeel' and 'crapped' on him and telling him the abusive/rage/swearing/stealing/partying/drugs/spending rent money was all his fault. 
“I have to deal with her constant dumping on me.” Yep, my 'constant dumping on him' about how he was ruing our relationship and his family with the abusive behaviour/stealing/lying/cheating/partying/drugs/drinking. I really should have just shut my little lady mouth and accepted whatever he wanted to do. I was such a horrid nagging fight-picking b*tch for letting him know that what he was doing on a daily basis was not acceptable. 
“She sees things very one sided, me at fault, and is incapable of seeing that I could have a point.” This statements screams of projecting, where is he saying that she may also have a point? Seems like the hypocritical finger-pointing my ex always shot at me as well. 
"She's very good at fixing everyone else, but not herself.” Uh huh, why is it that I was always trying to 'fix' his atrocious behaviour and not work on my nagging and bitching about being abused myself? 
"I’m supposed to put up with her crap while I work on my crap. Why am I supposed to be sympathetic and empathetic to her issues when she isn't to mine?" Sometimes you have to take one for the team in a marriage, but this statements reeks of selfishness and entitlement. 
"She told me ‘I’ve been miserable since I met you’.” I told my ex that after I started sticking up for myself before getting out of the relationship. It was so liberating to let him know how dissatisfied I had always been with his tyranny and oppression. Unfortunately, it escalated his abuse into physical, so he had every reason to blame me entirely for his physical abuse.
Posted @ Friday, May 25, 2012 4:07 PM by mary
Mary, Thanks for sharing your comments. I particularly appreciate those of your own experience in the first comment. For clarification, I am not defending or supporting this man's anger or it coming out towards his child. I am adding understanding as to partly why he got so angry. -Kurt
Posted @ Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:37 AM by Kurt Smith, MFT, AFC
Unfortunately, Phil seems to have stated his complaints in terms that, themselves, provoke arguments with women - such as those who commented here. Then the issue becomes, "Oh yeah? Well let me tell YOU..." instead of what kind of "crap" he's talking about. Once again, the male victim of abuse goes unheard and unacknowledged. Yes, many here have read their own situation into Phil's brief comments and written him off as a liar.  
 
As one of the gentlest souls on earth (before I married at 26, I'd been in exactly one fight in my entire life, on the grade school playground), I can tell you that it is VERY possible for an abusive woman to drive a man to violence. In 11 years of marriage, my attempts to defend myself from her abuse went from ignoring it, to putting up with it, to asking for behavior modification, to explaining behavior modification, to endless repeated requests, to pleading, to silent weathering, to crying, to shouting, to hitting the wall (after all, hitting HER was absolutely out of the question... but how else can you MAKE IT STOP?!), to 8-10 attempts to rip the wheel off the steering column, to wailing uncontrollably, to the very brink of physical altercation. When it became apparent that we both were inevitably headed for violence against each other, in spite of the counseling we'd received, I left her. Thank God Phil recognized his need for help before he actually hurt his son! 
 
And for the record, I was well into the 11th year before I understood that I'd been the victim of an abuser. 
 
For those who don't believe women can be abusive, think about it for a second: when a man is identified as an abuser, the first thing counselors look for is whether he'd been abused himself as a child. Why? Because everybody knows that abuse victims very frequently become abusers themselves. But as Mary pointed out, countless numbers of women have been molested, raped, degraded, humiliated, discounted, and devalued. Just like male victims, many of them with the grace of God wind up as good spouses and parents anyway - but how many don't? My ex-wife, for one: when she was repeatedly molested at 5 by her paternal grandfather, her dad did nothing either to punish his father or change his own emotionally abusive habits toward his wife and 6 children. It permanently screwed up her ability to respect men, and I "reaped the rewards." I didn't deserve or make up what happened to me, and I have no reason to think that Phil did either. And of course it makes no sense to suggest that one can't be both victim and aggressor; the two aren't mutually exclusive - all you need is two abusers.  
 
Women are the first to admit that the number one reason they don't like most other women, is that women are capable of nasty cattiness and duplicity, even the generally well-adjusted ones. They're extremely well-versed in wielding the spoken word as a weapon; Mary's tone tells me that she's a master at it. Remember the saying that "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me"? Nonsense! Words hurt worst of all, because those hurts NEVER heal. Women know this. They DEPEND on it. 
 
You're darn right that I need professional counseling to get out of the near-catatonic depression I've been in now for the last 10 years (3 before and 7 after I left). But counselors who 1) understand and respect the legitimacy of emotional abuse and 2) accept the validity of male victims and 3) offer any useful solutions are EXTREMELY hard to find. I'm still looking but I haven't gotten past 1) yet.
Posted @ Wednesday, June 06, 2012 8:48 PM by john
Yeah, I can understand and sympathise with Phil! I had only known my girlfriend [now ex!] for a few short months, but the relationship was always 'on-and-off' as we were falling out all the time - mainly her sarcastic moods, possessiveness, tantrums and aggression, yet she always blamed me for them. Whatever I did was never good enough, and it was always me who apologised, as she found it impossible to ever say sorry [or indeed, to ever give praise or say 'thank you'!]!  
 
 
 
Then the name-calling got much worse, and eventually on a disastrous holiday to Norfolk [UK] the 24-7 & confined space of a chalet, plus her volatile nature proved an explosive mix, and in the car one day she punched me in the face! Showing no remorse, first ignoring me and then eventually threatening yet more violence, I called the Norfolk Police who arrested her, but with no witnesses the charge was later dropped. I split from her immediately and got the next train back to Leicester. I thought we loved each other and perhaps one day get married - I must've been insane! Mick White [UK]
Posted @ Saturday, June 16, 2012 6:41 AM by Mick White
John, Sorry to hear that you haven't found a counselor who understands your experience. Thanks for sharing it here to help other guys and women understand. -Kurt
Posted @ Saturday, June 16, 2012 9:03 AM by Kurt Smith, MFT, AFC
When I was growing up my mother used to beat me out of frustration. When I got into relationships I didn't know how else to handle problems. My mother thought violence would work. I thought it would work. I was attracted to men with abusive backgrounds like mine. So I found myself in relationships where we would beat each other up.
Posted @ Tuesday, July 03, 2012 12:53 PM by Catherine
Catherine, Thank you for your honesty and sharing. You describe a common pattern in that many of those who are abusive were abused themselves. -Kurt
Posted @ Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:20 PM by Kurt Smith, MFT, AFC
It is very true that women can be abusive. There are always two sides and then the truth. 
 
It takes one to fuel the fire and two to argue and disrespect each other’s right to peace of mind. 
 
 
 
You can’t hear people when they are screaming. Sometimes, you can’t hear them when they are whispering—if they are saying something you don’t want to hear. Often people attack the person instead of the problem. 
 
 
 
That's when love takes leave.
Posted @ Thursday, August 16, 2012 7:48 PM by Vivian Dixon Sober
I think it is shortsighted to generalize that only men can be abusive, assuming that abuse comes only physically. Like men, women can be ever abusive verbally since they dont usually posess as much physical ability to get physical. But the more feisty ones can yell, cuss and throw things. And I think I have met them all. Lol So the smart man, especially if black and dating another race will vacate rapidly and refer that kind to the police.
Posted @ Monday, September 17, 2012 11:42 AM by Ron Andre
I too am in a situation where I have realized I am a abuser, and with a abuser. He was in a home with a abusive dad and mother. Ran away from his problems, lied, cheated etc. 
I was raised in a home where the loud got heard or think we did.  
My father was verbally, emotionally and physically abusive towards my mother and us. She became bitter and mean towards him as well after he cheated, lied, abused her etc. 
I told myself I would never treat anyone like that. Well once I was cheated on by my boyfriend when we had a baby together..I shut down and freaked out on him, I was in pain and scared he would do it again. Since then I have been angry, bitter,mean and downright cruel with my words and now physically at times with him. He started to change after the cheating too, withdrawing from everything, doesnt hold a job, excuses etc. porn addiction, anger, drugs, you name it to numb his pain and blame it on me for downing him..he should have worked on fixing things with me. He told me that I make him so mad he reacts to me by the verbal abuse or physical when he says I pushed him too far, he too was a sweet, gentle never laid a hand a woman type guy. Behind anger is pain and fear. We both recognize the traits and patterns, making arrangements to get counceling but its hard, very hard to change behavior that has been around for so long. We love each other very much,but I cant help but wonder if it will work out. I am depressed and just in a fog all the time. It affects my parenting, my friendships, my business and my spirit is broken. Despite all this we are good people with big hearts..i feel we are two little kids that saw and heard too much..We need to do the work and take one day at a time. I just hope I can develop the skills it takes to have a healthy relationship.. Reading all of these comments put me in my place and take ownership of my relationship crumbling and to stop the abuse and for that Thank you and God Bless. 
A work in progress, 
Amanda
Posted @ Tuesday, October 02, 2012 2:18 PM by Amanda
Amanda, Glad to hear that you've come to the place of taking ownership and changing things. That's the place of real power. Be sure to lean on professional guidance if you need it in how to make changes. Again, good for you! - Kurt
Posted @ Wednesday, October 03, 2012 7:18 AM by Kurt Smith, MFT, AFC
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